Engines of Creation: The Coming Era of Nanotechnology
FINDING THE FACTS
(Chapter 13)
| A Mess
of Experts
From Feuds to Due Process An Approach Why Not Due Process? Building Due Process |
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| References for Chapter 13 | ||||
Fear cannot be banished, but it can be calm and
without panic; and it can be mitigated by reason and
evaluation.
|
SOCIETY NEEDS BETTER WAYS to understand technology - this has
long been obvious. The challenges ahead simply make our need more
urgent.
The promise of technology lures us onward, and the pressure of
competition makes stopping virtually impossible. As the
technology race quickens, new developments sweep toward us
faster, and a fatal mistake grows more likely. We need to strike
a better balance between our foresight and our rate of advance.
We cannot do much to slow the growth of technology, but we can
speed the growth of foresight. And with better foresight, we will
have a better chance to steer the technology race in safe
directions.
Various approaches to guiding technology have been suggested.
"The people must control technology" is a plausible
slogan, but it has two possible meanings. If it means that we
must make technology serve human needs, then it makes good sense.
But if it means that the people as a whole must make technical
decisions, then it makes very little sense. The electorate cannot
judge the intricate links between technology, economy,
environment, and life; people lack the needed knowledge. The
people themselves agree: according to a U.S. National Science
Foundation survey, 85 percent of U.S. adults believe that
most citizens lack the knowledge needed to choose which
technologies to develop. The public generally leaves technical
judgments to technical experts.
Unfortunately, leaving judgment to experts causes problems. In Advice and Dissent,
Primack and von Hippel point out that "to the extent that
the Administration can succeed in keeping unfavorable information
quiet and the public confused, the public welfare can be
sacrificed with impunity to bureaucratic convenience and private
gain." Regulators suffer more criticism when a new drug
causes a single death than they do when the absence of a
new drug causes a thousand deaths. They misregulate accordingly.
Military bureaucrats have a vested interest in spending money,
hiding mistakes, and continuing their projects. They mismanage
accordingly. This sort of problem is so basic and natural that
more examples are hardly needed. Everywhere, secrecy and fog make
bureaucrats more comfortable; everywhere, personal convenience
warps factual statements on matters of public concern. As
technologies grow more complex and important, this pattern grows
more dangerous.
Some authors consider rule by secretive technocrats to be
virtually inevitable. In Creating Alternative Futures,
Hazel Henderson argues
that complex technologies "become inherently
totalitarian" (her italics) because neither voters nor
legislators can understand them. In The Human Future
Revisited, Harrison
Brown likewise argues that the temptation to bypass
democratic processes in solving complex crises brings the danger
"that if industrial civilization survives it will become
increasingly totalitarian in nature." If this were so, it
would likely mean our doom: we cannot stop the technology race,
and a world of totalitarian states based on advanced technology
needing neither workers nor soldiers might well discard most of
the population.
Fortunately, democracy and liberty have met comparable challenges
before. States grew too complex for direct democracy, but
representative government evolved. State power threatened to
crush liberty, but the rule of law evolved. Technology has grown
complex, but this gives us no reason to ignore the people,
discard the law, and hail a dictator. We need ways to handle
technical complexity in a democratic framework, using experts as
instruments to clarify our vision without giving them control of
our lives. But technical experts today are mired in a system of
partisan feuding.
A Mess of Experts
Government and industry - and their critics - commonly appoint
expert committees that meet in secret, if they meet at all. These
committees claim credibility based on who they are, not
on how they work. Opposed groups recruit opposed Nobel
laureates.
To gain influence in our mass democracy, groups try to outshout
one another. When their views have corporate appeal, they take
them to the public through advertising campaigns. When their
views have pork-barrel appeal, they take them to legislatures
through lobbying. When their views have dramatic appeal, they
take them to the public through media campaigns. Groups promote
their pet experts, the battle goes public, and quiet scientists
and engineers are drowned in the clamor.
As the public conflict grows, people come to doubt expert
pronouncements. They judge statements the obvious way, by their
source. ("Of course she claims oil spills are harmless - she
works for Exxon." "Of course he says Exxon lies - he
works for Nader.")
When established experts lose credibility, demagogues can join
the battle on an equal footing. Reporters - eager for
controversy, striving for fairness, and seldom guided by
technical backgrounds-carry all sides straight to the public.
Cautious statements by scrupulous scientists make little
impression; other scientists see no choice but to adopt the
demagogues' style. Debates become sharp and angry, divisions
grow, and the smoke of battle obscures the facts. Paralysis or
folly often follows.
Our greatest problem is how we handle problems. Debates rage over the safety of
nuclear power, coal power, and chemical wastes. Well-meaning
groups backed by impressive experts clash again and again over
dull, technical facts - dull, that is, save for their importance:
What are the effects of low-level radiation, and how likely is a
reactor meltdown? What are the causes and effects of acid rain?
How well could space-based defenses block missile attacks? Do
five cases of leukemia within three miles of a particular waste
dump show a deadly hazard, or merely the workings of chance?
Greater issues lie ahead: How safe is this replicator? Will this active shield system
be safe and secure? Will this biostasis procedure be
reversible? Can we trust this AI system?
Disputes about technical facts feed broader disputes about
policy. People may have differing values (which would you rather
have, encephalitis or pesticide poisoning?) but their views of
relevant facts often differ still more. (How often do these
mosquitoes carry encephalitis? How toxic is this
pesticide?) When different views of boring facts lead to
disagreements about important policies, people may wonder,
"How can they oppose us on this vital issue unless they have
bad motives?" Disputes
over facts can thus turn potential allies against one another.
This hampers our efforts to understand and solve our problems.
People have disputed facts for millennia; only the prominence of
technical disputes is new. Societies have evolved methods for
judging facts about people. These methods suggest how we might
judge facts about technology.
From Feuds to Due Process
Throughout history, groups have evolved ways to resolve
disputes; the alternative has been feuds, open-ended and often
deadly. Medieval Europeans used several procedures, all better
than endless feuding:
They used trial by battle: opponents fought, and the law
vindicated the victor.
They used compurgation: neighbors swore to the honesty of the
accused; if enough swore, the charges were dropped.
They used trial by ordeal: in one, the accused was bound and
thrown in a river; those who sank were innocent, those who
floated, guilty.
They used judgment by secretive committees: the king's councilors
would meet to judge and pass sentence as seemed fit. In England,
they met in a room called the Star Chamber.
These methods supposedly determined who did what - the
facts about human events - but all had serious shortcomings.
Today we use similar methods to determine what causes what
- the facts about science and technology:
We use trial by combat in the press: opponents fling sharp words
until one side's case suffers political death. Unfortunately,
this often resembles an endless feud.
We use compurgation: experts swear to certain facts; if enough
swear the same, the facts are declared true.
We use judgment by secretive committees: selected experts meet to
judge facts and recommend such actions as seem fit. In the United
States, they often meet in committees of the National Academy of
Sciences.
Trial by ordeal has passed from fashion, but combat in the press
may well seem like torture to the quiet scientist with
self-respect.
The English abolished Star Chamber proceedings in 1641, and they
counted this a great achievement. Trial by combat, compurgation,
and ordeal have likewise become history. We now value due
process, at least when judging people.
Court procedures illustrate the principles of due process:
Allegations must be specific. Both sides must have a chance to
speak and confront each other, to rebut and cross-examine. The
process must be public, to prevent hidden rot. Debate must
proceed before a jury that both sides accept as impartial.
Finally, a judge must referee the process and enforce the rules.
To see the value of due process, imagine its opposite: a process
trampling all these principles would give one side a say and the
other no chance to cross-examine or respond. It would meet in
secret, allow vague smears, and lack a judge to enforce whatever
rules might remain. Jurors would arrive with their decisions
made. In short, it would resemble a lynch mob meeting in a locked
barn - or a rigged committee drafting a report.
Experience shows the value of due process in judging facts about
people; might it also be of value in judging facts about science
and technology? Due process is a basic idea, not restricted to
courts of law. Some AI
researchers, for example, are building due-process principles
into their computer programs. It seems that due process should be
of use in judging technical facts.
In fact, the scientific literature - the chief forum of science -
already embodies a form of due process: In good journals,
scientific statements must be specific. In theory, given enough
time and persistence, all sides may state their views in a
dispute, since journals stand open to controversy. Though
opponents may not meet face to face, they confront each other at
a distance; they question and respond in slow motion, through
letters and articles. Referees, like juries, evaluate evidence
and reasoning. Editors, like judges, enforce rules of procedure.
Publication keeps the debate open to public scrutiny.
In both journals and courts, conflicting ideas are pitted against
one another under rules evolved to ensure a fair, orderly battle.
These rules sometimes fail because they are broken or inadequate,
but they are the best we have developed. Imperfect due process
has proved better than no due process at all.
Why do scientists value refereed journals? Not because they trust
all refereed journals, or trust everything printed in any one of
them. Even the best due-process system won't grind out a stream
of pure truth. Rather, they value refereed journals because they
tend to reflect sound critical discussion. Indeed, they must:
because journals compete with one another for papers, prestige,
and readership, the best journals must be good indeed. Journals
grind slowly, yet after enough rounds of publication and
criticism they often grind out consensus.
Experience proves the value of both courts and journals. Their
underlying similarity suggests that their value stems from a
common source - due process. Due process can fail, but it is
still the best approach known for finding the facts.
Today, courts and journals are not enough. Vital technical
disputes go on and on because we have no rapid, orderly way to
bring out the facts (and to delineate our ignorance). Courts are
not suited to deal with technical questions. Journals are better,
but they still have shortcomings. They took shape in a time of
lower technology and slower advance, evolving to fit the limits
of printing, the speed of mail, and the needs of academic
science. But today, in a time when we desperately need better and
swifter technical judgment, we find ourselves in a world that has
telephones, jets, copiers, and express and electronic mail. Can
we use modern technologies to speed technical debate?
Of course: scientists already use several approaches. Jets bring
scientists from around the globe to conferences where papers are
presented and discussed. But conferences handle controversy
poorly; public decorum and tight schedules limit the vigor and
depth of debate.
Scientists also join informal research networks linked by
telephone, mail, computers, and copying machines; these
accelerate exchange and discussion. But they are essentially
private institutions. They, too, fail to provide a credible,
public procedure for thrashing out differences.
Conferences, journals, and informal networks share some similar
limitations. They typically focus on technical questions of
scientific importance, rather than on technical questions of
public-policy importance. Moreover, they typically focus on
scientific questions. Journals tend to slight technological
questions that lack intrinsic scientific interest; they often
treat them as news items not worthy of checking by referees.
Further, our present institutions lack any balanced way to
present knowledge when it is still tangled in controversy. Though
scientific review articles often present and weigh several sides,
they do so from a single author's point of view.
All these shortcomings share a common source: scientific
institutions evolved to advance science, not to sift facts for
policy makers. These institutions serve their purpose well
enough, but they serve other purposes poorly. Though this is no
real failing, it does leave a real need.
An Approach
We need better procedures for debating technical facts -
procedures that are open, credible, and focused on finding the
facts we need to formulate sound policies. We can begin by
copying aspects of other due-process procedures; we then can
modify and refine them in light of experience. Using modern
communications and transportation, we can develop a focused,
streamlined, journal-like process to speed public debate on
crucial facts; this seems half the job. The other half requires
distilling the results of the debate into a balanced picture of
our state of knowledge (and by the same token, of our state of
ignorance). Here, procedures
somewhat like those of courts seem useful.
Since the procedure (a fact
forum) is intended to summarize facts, each side will
begin by stating what it sees as the key facts and listing them
in order of importance. Discussion will begin with the statements
that head each side's list. Through rounds of argument, cross
examination, and negotiation the referee will seek
agreed-upon statements. Where disagreements remain, a technical
panel will then write opinions, outlining what seems to be
known and what still seems uncertain. The output of the fact
forum will include background arguments, statements of agreement,
and the panel's opinions. It might resemble a set of journal
articles capped by a concise review article - one limited to
factual statements, free of recommendations for policy.
This procedure must differ from that of a court in various ways.
For example, the technical panel - the forum's "jury" -
must be technically competent. Bias might lead a panel to
misjudge facts, but technical incompetence would do equal harm.
For this reason, the "jury" of a fact forum must be
selected in a way that might be dangerous if allowed in courts of
law. Since courts wield the power of the police, we use juries
selected from the people as a whole to guard our liberty. This
forces the government to seek approval from a group of citizens
before it punishes someone, thus tying the government's actions
to community standards. A fact forum, however, will neither
punish people nor make public policy. The public will be free to
watch the process and decide whether to believe its results. This
will give people control enough.
Still, to make a fact forum fair and effective, we will need a
good panel-selection procedure. Technical panels will correspond
roughly to the expert committees appointed by governments or to
the referees appointed by journals. To ensure fairness, a panel
must be selected not by a committee, a politician, or a
bureaucrat, but by a process that involves the consent of both
sides in the dispute. In court proceedings, advocates can
challenge and reject any jurors who seem biased; we can use a
similar process in selecting the panel for a fact forum.
Experts who are directly involved in a dispute can't serve on the
panel - they would either bias the panel or split it. The group
sponsoring a fact forum must seek panelists who are knowledgeable
in related fields. This seems practical because the methods of
technical judgment (often based on experiments and calculations)
are quite general. Panelists familiar with the fundamentals of a
field will be able to judge the detailed arguments made by each
side's specialists.
Other parts of the fact forum will also resemble those of courts
and journals. A committee like a journal's editorial group will
nominate a referee and panelists for a dispute. Advocates for
each side, like authors or attorneys, will assemble and present
the strongest case they can.
Despite these similarities, a fact forum will differ from a
court: It will focus on technical questions. It will suggest no
actions. It will lack government power. It will follow technical
rules of evidence and argument. It will differ in endless details
of tone and procedure. The analogy with a court is just that - an
analogy, a source for ideas.
A fact forum will also differ from a journal: It will move as
fast as mail, meetings, and electronic messages permit, rather
than delaying exchanges by many months, as in typical journal
publication. It will be convened around an issue, rather than
being established to cover a scientific field. It will summarize
knowledge to aid decisions, rather than serving as a primary
source of data for the scientific community. Although a series of
fact forums won't replace a journal, they will help us find and
publicize facts that could save our lives.
Dr. Arthur Kantrowitz (a member of the National Academy of
Sciences who is accomplished in fields ranging from medical
technology to high-power lasers) originated the concept I have just outlined.
He at first called it a "board of technical inquiry."
Journalists promptly dubbed it a "science court." I
have called it a "fact forum"; I will reserve the term
"science court" for a fact forum used (or proposed) as
a government institution. Proposals for due process in
technical disputes are still in flux; different discussions use
different terms.
Dr. Kantrowitz's concern with due process arose out of the U.S.
decision to build giant rockets to reach the Moon in one great
leap; he, backed by the
findings of an expert committee, had recommended that NASA
use several smaller rockets to carry components into a low orbit,
then plug them together to build a vehicle to reach the Moon.
This approach promised to save billions of dollars and develop
useful space-construction capabilities as well. No one answered
his arguments, yet he failed to win his case. Minds were set,
politicians were committed, the report was locked in a White
House safe, and the debate was closed. The technical facts were
quietly suppressed in the interests of those who wanted to build
a new generation of giant rockets.
This showed a grave flaw in our institutions - one that persists,
wasting our money and increasing the risk of a disastrous error.
Dr. Kantrowitz soon reached the now obvious conclusion: we need
due process institutions for airing technical controversies.
Dr. Kantrowitz pursued this goal (in its science-court form)
through discussions, writings, studies, and conferences. He won
endorsements for the science court idea from Ford, Carter, and
Reagan - as candidates. As Presidents, they did nothing, though a
presidential advisory task force during the Ford administration
did detail a proposed
procedure.
Still, progress has been made. Although I have used the future
tense in describing the fact forum, experiments have begun. But
before describing a path to due process, it makes sense to
consider some of the objections.
Why Not Due Process?
Critics of this idea (at least in its science court version)
have often disagreed with one another. Some have objected that
factual disputes are unimportant, or that they can be smoothed
over behind closed doors; others have objected that factual
disputes are too deep and important for due process to help. Some
have warmed that science courts would be dangerous; others have
warned that they would be impotent. These criticisms all have
some validity: due process will be no cure-all. Sometimes it
won't be needed, and sometimes it will be abused. Still, one
might equally well reject penicillin on the grounds that it is
sometimes ineffective, unnecessary, or harmful.
These critics propose no alternatives, and they seldom argue that
we have due process today, or that due process is worthless. We
must deal with complex, technical issues on which millions of
lives depend; dare we leave these issues to secretive committees,
sluggish journals, media battles, and the technical judgment of
politicians? If we distrust experts, should we accept the
judgment of secretive committees appointed in secret, or demand a
more open process? Finally, can we with our present system cope
with a global technology race in nanotechnology and artificial
intelligence?
Open, due-process institutions seem vital. By letting all sides
participate, they will harness the energy of conflict to a search
for the facts. By limiting experts to describing the facts, they
will help us cope with technology without surrendering our
decisions to technocrats. Individuals, companies, and elected
officials will keep full control of policy; technical experts
will still be able to recommend policies through other channels.
How can we distinguish facts from values? Karl Popper's standard
seems useful: a statement is factual (whether true or false) if
an experiment or observation could in principle disprove it. To
some people, the idea of examining facts without
considering values suggests the idea of making policy
without considering values. This would be absurd: by their very
nature, policy decisions will always involve both facts and
values. Cause and effect are matters of fact, telling us what is
possible. But policy also involves our values, our motives for
action. Without accurate facts, we won't get the results we seek,
but without values - without desires and preferences - we
wouldn't seek anything in the first place. A process that
uncovers facts can help people choose policies that will serve
their values.
Critics have worried that a science court will (in effect)
declare the Earth to be flat, and then ignore an Aristarchus
of Samos or a Magellan when he finds evidence to the
contrary. Errors, bias, and imperfect knowledge will surely cause
some memorable mistakes. But members of a technical panel need
not claim a bogus certainty. They can instead describe our
knowledge and outline our ignorance, sometimes stating that we
simply don't know, or that present evidence gives only a rough
idea of the facts. This way, they will protect their reputations
for good judgment. When new evidence arrives, a question can he
reopened; ideas need no protection from double jeopardy.
If fact forums become popular and respected, they will gain
influence. Their success will then make them harder to abuse:
many competing groups will sponsor them, and a group that abuses
the procedure will tend to gain a bad reputation and be ignored.
No single sponsoring group will be able to obscure the facts
about an important issue, if fact forums gain reliability through
redundancy.
No institution will be able to eliminate corruption and error,
but fact forums will be guided, however imperfectly, by an
improved standard for the conduct of public debate; they will
have to fall a long way before becoming worse than the system we
have today. The basic case for fact forums is that (1) due
process is the right approach to try, and (2) we will do better
if we try than if we don't.
Building Due Process
Anthropologist
Margaret Mead was invited to a colloquium on the science court
to speak against the idea. But when the time came, she spoke in
its favor, remarking that "We need a new institution. There
isn't any doubt about that. The institutions we have are totally
unsatisfactory. In many cases, they are not only unsatisfactory,
they involve a prostitution of science and a prostitution of the
decision making process." People with no vested interest in
the existing institutions often agree with her evaluation.
If finding the facts about technology really is crucial to our
survival, and if due process really is the key to finding the
facts, then what can we do about it? We needn't begin with
perfect procedures; we can begin with informal attempts to
improve on the procedures we have. We can then evolve better
procedures by varying our methods and selecting those that work
best. Due process is a matter of degree.
Existing institutions could
move toward due process by modifying some of their rules and
traditions. For example, government agencies could regularly
consult opposing sides before appointing the members of an expert
committee. They could guarantee each side the right to present
evidence, examine evidence, and cross-examine experts. They could
open their proceedings to observers. Each of these steps would
strengthen due process, changing Star Chamber proceedings into
institutions more worthy of respect.
The public benefits of due process won't necessarily make it
popular among the groups being asked to change, however. We
haven't heard the thunder of interest groups rushing to test
their claims, nor the cries of joy from committees as they throw
open their doors and submit to the discipline of due process. Nor
have we heard reports of politicians renouncing the use of
spurious facts to hide the political basis of their decisions.
Yet three U.S. presidential candidates did endorse
science courts. The Committee of Scientific Society Presidents,
which includes twenty-eight of the leading scientific societies
in the U.S., also endorsed the idea. The U.S. Department of
Energy used a "science court-like procedure" to
evaluate competing fusion-power proposals, and declared it
efficient and useful. Dr. John C. Bailar of the National Cancer
Institute, after failing to make medical organizations recognize
the dangers of X rays and reduce their use in mass screening,
proposed holding a science court on the subject. His opponents
then backed down and changed their policies - apparently, the
mere threat of due process is already saving lives. Nevertheless,
the old ways continue almost unchallenged.
Why is this? In part, because knowledge
is power, and hence jealously guarded. In part, because
powerful groups can readily imagine how due process would
inconvenience them. In part, because an effort to improve
problem-solving methods lacks the drama of a campaign to fight
problems directly; a thousand activists bail out the ship of
state for every one who tries to plug the holes in its hull.
Governments may yet act to establish science courts, and any
steps they may take toward due process merit support. Yet it is
reasonable to fear government sponsorship of science courts:
centralized power tends to beget lumbering monsters. A central
"Science Court Agency" might work well, do little
visible harm, and yet impose a great hidden cost: its very
existence (and the lack of competition) might block evolutionary improvements.
Other paths lie open. Fact forums will he able to exert influence
without help from special legal powers. To have a powerful
effect, their results only need to be more credible than the
assertions of any particular person, committee, corporation, or
interest group. A well-run fact forum will carry credibility in
its very structure. Such forums could be sponsored by
universities.
In fact, Dr. Kantrowitz recently conducted an experimental procedure at the
University of California at Berkeley. It centered around
public disputes between geneticist Beverly Paigen and biochemist
William Havender regarding birth defects and genetic hazards at
the Love Canal chemical dump site. They served as advocates;
graduate students served as a technical panel. The procedure
involved meetings spread over several weeks, chiefly spent in
discussing areas of agreement and disagreement; it wound up with
several sessions of public cross-examination before the panel.
Both the advocates and the panel agreed to eleven statements of
fact, and they clarified their remaining disagreements and
uncertainties.
Arthur Kantrowitz and Roger Masters note that "in contrast
to the difficulties experienced in the many attempts to implement
a science court under government auspices, encouraging results
were obtained in the first serious attempt... in a university
setting." They remark that the traditions and resources of
universities make them natural settings for such efforts. They
plan more such experiments.
This shows a decentralized way to develop due-process
institutions, one that will let us outflank existing
bureaucracies and entrenched interests. In doing this, we can
build on established principles and test variations in the best
evolutionary tradition.
Leaders concerned with a thousand different issues - even leaders
on opposing sides of an issue - can join in support of due
process. In Getting to Yes, Roger Fisher and William Ury
of the Harvard Negotiation Project point out that opponents tend
to favor impartial arbitration when each side believes itself
right. Both sides expect to
win, hence both agree to participate. Fact forums should
attract honest advocates and repel charlatans.
As due process becomes standard, advocates with sound cases will
gain an advantage even if their opponents refuse to cooperate -
"If they won't defend their case in public, why listen to
them?" Further, many disputes will be resolved (or
avoided) without the trouble of actual proceedings: the
prospect of a refereed public debate will encourage advocates to
check their facts before they take stands. Establishing fact
forums could easily do more for a sound cause than would the
recruitment of a million supporters.
Yet today well-meaning leaders may feel forced to exaggerate
their cases simply to be heard above the roar of their opponents'
press releases. Should they regretfully oppose the discipline of
fact forums? Surely not; due process can heal the social illness
that forced them away from the facts in the first place. By
making their points in a fact forum, they can recover the
self-respect that comes with intellectual honesty.
Unearthing the truth may undermine a cherished position, but this
cannot harm the interests of a true public-interest group. If one
must move a bit to make room for the truth, so what? Great
leaders have shifted positions for worse reasons, and due process
will make opponents shift too.
Gregory
Bateson once stated that "no organism can afford to be
conscious of matters with which it could deal at unconscious
levels." In the organism of a democracy, the conscious level
roughly corresponds to debate in the mass media. The unconscious
levels consist of whatever processes ordinarily work well enough
without a public hue and cry. In the media, as in human
consciousness, one concern tends to drive out another. This is
what makes conscious attention so scarce and precious. Our
society needs to identify the facts of its situation more swiftly
and reliably, with fewer distracting feuds in the media. This
will free public debate for its proper task - judging procedures
for finding facts, deciding what we want, and helping us choose a
path toward a world worth living in.
As change quickens, our need grows. To judge the risk of a
replicator or the feasibility of an active shield, we will need
better ways to debate the facts. Purely social inventions like
the fact forum will help, but new social technologies based on
computers also hold promise. They, too, will extend due process.
© Copyright 1986, K. Eric Drexler, all rights reserved.
Original web version prepared and links added by Russell Whitaker.